Private Dekket, Private Waines, Sergeant Wedingo
This was fairly similar to a conversation I had with my wife and brother-in-law, my brother-in-law supplied the conclusion.
I really should clarify given some of the comments below. I personally have no problem with anyone transgender or of any sexual orientation. I found the conversation and the “Indian Burial Ground” comment amusing and a rather strange point of view that I wished to put in the comic. I, however, support all walks of life and as a scientist am well aware that by all technical standards everyone starts out as a woman and through a series of genetic influences and hormones become the gender which they “end up as.” I am also aware that some people do not end up as the genders they would chose to end up as and these things become complicated as the brain tells the body it is one thing and the body disagrees. This is simple biology, well not simple, but still. I commend those who would adjust their physiology to suit their emotional and mental needs, as that tends to work better than being frustrated and doing horrible things to themselves or others. That being said as a human being myself it would be strange to find out that someone I was dating used to be something other than what they are now, physical attraction is a superficial thing, but to a degree we’re all guilty of it, I think I might even react in a similar fashion if the person were say formerly very very overweight or had a disfigurement that was corrected, it would set me back and perhaps be something that I dwell on, as I am not a perfect person, I would hope I could get past something like that, but I have no had the opportunity, so I can not be certain. I hope that this comic has not offended anyone and if it has I offer my sincerest apologies, my intent is always to entertain, not offend. Though I realize sometimes things which are insulting are often (usually) offensive, thus I do my best to insult everyone, including myself (see past and future jokes about Serbs).
I agree with the conclusion — that must have been a very strange conversation. Good to know TAG is still onboard the Muffin.
Thank you so very much for perpetuating the “Trans women are deceivers” and the “It’s okay to laugh at transpeople” memes. This directly results in peoples’ deaths.
Are you prepared to live with this responsibility?
ok, i have no problem with any preference/gender/race etc.
but its a just a comic meant purely for entertainment there is no reason to take it so personal, its not like he’s saying to go out and kill these people, in fact compared to what people say in day to day life, this comic can hardly be considered offensive
I don’t know why I haven’t noticed this until just now, but the trooper on the left actually looks pretty fucking badass with the red hair and half face.
If I’m reading this correctly there are two characters who are not impressed with the remark about women who used to be men? I hope so as the truth oi the matter is that they always were women, just women who were a bit different.
regards
It doesn’t really matter if you “have no problem” with trans people – the fact is that you’re using trans people (and specifically, trans women) as the punchline. Worse, the whole joke is based around the idea that a trans woman is “really” a man until (and perhaps even after) she has SRS. Not to mention it alludes to the irrational fear that striaght guys have about the idea of having sex with a trans woman, perhaps without even knowing that she’s trans (because omg if she’s “really” a man then does that make them gay?!?!) This may sound like just some question of biology or whatever, but as Jessica quite rightly pointed out, trans women are assaulted, raped, and murdered with alarming frequency because of the ideas that you’ve based this comic on – that they’re not “real” women.
And sure, you may think that you’re being an “equal-opportunity offender”… but how often do you see jokes about Serbs in the mainstream media? Making fun of racial and ethnic groups still happens, but it’s not nearly as common as it once was, and the people who are the target of such jokes don’t have to constantly put up with hearing them. Making fun of trans people, though? Happens all the time, and in places you wouldn’t even expect, because it’s still socially acceptable to make someone the butt of a joke because their bodies don’t look the way they’re “supposed” to. Just the other day one of the political blogs I subscribe to made a post about Ann Coulter, and half the comments were cracks about how she “looks like a tranny”.
So while your intent may not have been to offend people, that’s exactly what you’ve done. That’s the risk you take when you use this kind of humor, and if you turn around and say “But it was only a joke! Trans people shouldn’t be offended by this, because I really have no problem with them at all in real life!” then you’re copping out. You can’t have it both ways – you cannot claim to “support” trans women while publishing comics like this, and you cannot expect to use this type of humor without it ever offending anyone. Either deal with the consequences when people call you out on how offensive it is, or find some other way to be funny. I read a lot of other webcomics that have never used humor that was so offensive that I’ve stopped subscribing to them, and they all quite entertaining in spite of this (and indeed because of it.)
You’re right, i am coping out, I can’t have it both ways. I honestly had no idea the impact this joke would have and it was a mistake to put it up. I could take it down but then I would be opening myself up to every possible offense being something that I could take down, in which case I should just stop the comic all together. I can only apologize and hope that those people that it offends may some day forgive me. However supporting something and make jokes about it are not mutually exclusive. I support my Serbian heritage, but I make fun of it, I support America, but I make fun of it. I support my wife and I make fun of her. I am very sorry to have offended people with this comic, it was not my intention, but it should have been obvious to me that it would have done so.
However, shame on your for thinking that making fun of racial and ethnic groups is more acceptable just because it’s not nearly as common as it once was and people don’t have to put up with hearing them constantly.
Actually, what I said was that *because* ethnic humor has become socially unacceptable (as it should be) it is not nearly as common as jokes directed as trans people. Nowhere did I say that ethnic humor is acceptable. It’s not. I would actually love it if I never had to see another joke that was based around one group’s supposed inferiority to another (racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ablism, etc.) but in order for that to happen the people writing the jokes would have to actually get creative.
As a transgendered person I liked the comic and thought that the message was a good one. No harm done…
dude, get over it
its just a comic
“However, shame on your for thinking that making fun of racial and ethnic groups is more acceptable just because it’s not nearly as common as it once was and people don’t have to put up with hearing them constantly.”
You miss the point. It’s not that ethnic jokes are no longer acceptable, it’s that trans* jokes still are. How many ethnic jokes have ever supported the notion of someone being beaten over the head with a fire extinguisher until they’re dead? How many times did a murderer of an ethnic person happily say “I killed it”?
Okay, you can’t take the comic down, I get that. But how about a serious exploration of a trans* character, showing that they’re a real person with real emotions and real problems?
Actually that’s not a bad idea, you may have just given me the inspiration for a backstory of a character.
As for the ethnic jokes not supporting hurting people… um… would you like to me list the atrocities committed in the name of race and creed and color? How many times did the murder of an ehtnic person happily say “i killed it”? Ask the Jews, ask the Serbs, actually, no one even recognizes how many Serbs were killed during world war 2 for being ethnically different, not to mention all the disabled people and blacks and gays, and that’s just one historical incident. Look up lynch mob too, and race relations in Africa and Asia. There are no acceptable targets. We still take shots at them though, depending on who we are and how much we weren’t thinking at the time.
Actually no, you don’t need to because that completely supports the point that Seth made. Jokes at the expense of an identifiable minority are never acceptable. The real telling point here is that in most of Western Society it is no longer acceptable to kill another person because of the colour of their skin or who their ancestors were. Yes, other parts of the world still need to work on this concept. Yet everywhere it’s completely acceptable to fire, spit on, assault, or kill a trans person just because of who they are. Your joke and your “I’m personally okay…but I’d still feel strange…” comment only supports this attitude.
A trans character? That sounds really promising. Here’s a little source material to start your research.
I think what we have here is another example a few people making a lot of noise. It was a joke. It was humor. There are, to my understanding, a large number of followers of this webcomic, and compared to the vocal few who attack the artist for making his art, it would seem that most of the readers understand that it was just an attempt at humor. Let’s use the Mona Lisa for a moment, rather than Legostar Galactica #01103010. It is believed the the Mona Lisa is actually a self portrait but painted as another sex. I have yet to see anyone picketing or attacking DiVinci for painting it. Why? Because he’s an artist. Our author of this site, and this comic is also an artist, and is no less deserving of the respect you would give DiVinci. You don’t have to like each and every episode that comes out in order to enjoy the whole, and if you think he’s going to PC this comic to try and ensure that he doesn’t offend anyone, well, then perhaps you need to move. This is his outlet for his creative juices. Go find your own.
One other thing I’d like to point out. When I read this comic, I didn’t come away with the deep understanding that the author of this comic must hate transexuals. I came away with a small snicker, because I remember, as a youngster having these types of conversations. I don’t think we had this exact one, because none of us knew anything about transexuals.
I do also wish to offer a shame on you. All this noise about the transexual joke, and none about the “all Indian burial grounds are haunted” comment. If you are going to take offense for a violation of PC, then take offense for all of them, or take off your self appointed policeman’s badge.
I made 2 reference to PC (political correctness) but I’d like to invite any of you to do a little research and learn where PC truly started, what the intentions behind it were, then judge if you really should be the PC police or not.
Actually Random, I did notice the Indian Burial Ground reference and its associated race fail. However, Indian Burial Ground jokes don’t make reference to brutal murder just because someone’s different. Nor is it my fight; I’ll let First Nations people take on that one because as part of the white majority it’s condescending for me to fight that fight for them.
I’m not being PC police, I’m pointing out the injustice of a comic re-enforcing the idea that someone might kill me just because I’m different from them. I’m tired of my people being the butt of jokes and being brutally and casually murdered just for daring to live the way we need to. You say “I came away with a small snicker, because I remember, as a youngster having these types of conversations. I don’t think we had this exact one, because none of us knew anything about transexuals.”. This just serves to underscore the fact that the Social attitudes underlying this joke need to change if the carnage I and my brothers and sisters face daily is to be stopped. For you this is a joke. For me it’s a reminder that I’m under a Death Sentence that may be applied too me by anyone without notice.
@ Random: There is a huge difference between the Mona Lisa and this comic. You can still appreciate the Mona Lisa without knowing that Leonardo may have intended the subject to be a female version of himself. This theory about the Mona Lisa may no even be true, but even if this is true, the Mona Lisa does not rely on the viewer’s understanding of the cultural meme that “transgender women are not real women, and thus you are allowed to casually speculate about and demean their bodies as much as you like.”
The fact that Jessica has pointed this out does not mean she’s “policing” anyone. She is simply pointing out something that is offensive and demeaning to trans people – just as if anyone else had made a comic that was similarly offensive to disabled people, or people of color, you would expect people in those groups to object. Being politically correct does not mean censoring you own ideas, it means being respectful of other people’s viewpoints and life experiences. No one is suggesting that people should never say anything bad or negative about a trans person – believe me, there are just as many assholes among trans people as there are among cis (non-trans) people. But even is I met a trans person who was the biggest jerk I’d even met, I would only criticize them based on their behavior – and I would certainly never say or imply that their body wasn’t “real” or that there was something weird about their genitals, because that’s their personal business and it’s not my place to comment or speculate on any of that.
After some discussion about this with my wife and some soul searching I’ve decided to modify the comic from the original text. I don’t want to delete the comic or take it down completely or delete all the comments as that would be acting like none of this happened. It happened. I made a poor choice in retelling a joke that was in very poor taste to begin with and it was hugely offensive. As I’ve never had this kind of response to a comic before I can only hope this is the only time I’ve crossed a line like this and I hope not to do that in the future. I’m not a perfect person, I do make mistakes, and I am strongly considering taking Jessica’s suggestion, though I am afraid of doing it until it can be done properly in a non offensive way, so I’ll see how it goes. I do appreciate reader feedback, especially when I’m very wrong and the only thing I can do is remove the offensive portion of the text and apologize as profusely as possible. If there are other ways that any of you out there can think of that I might make up for this, please feel free to suggest it here and I will take things into consideration. I really do feel ashamed about this will be far more considerate in the future.
Thank you very much. I know apologies are very difficult to make and that what may seem harmless to some is seen far differently by others. I’ve greatly enjoyed reading this comic because of your fresh approach to situations. One bad day can’t stop that. We all need all the laughter we can get so please continue helping people smile : )
To the people defending the comic: I thank you for your defense of me and my art, but in some cases the complaint is valid. I’m accepting this one as valid as even my wife thinks I should not ever have put up this comic and she would have stopped me from doing so if I had mentioned to her that I was going to. She’s pretty good about telling me when I’ve gone too far, so I trust her opinion on this. Sorry for the drama.
Ah, the smell of transphobia in the morning.
This reminds me of the zomgrapegate incident from… another webcomic.
Chin up Dr. L, you do good work and I’ll forgive you this comic and be back tomorrow to see what you have
*rolls eyes* this much drama over a conversation that i have heard more than a couple times in my life. Lines crossed or not the opinions stated in the joke are commonly held by the majority of men out there and the author should not be flamed for stating the obvious.
I think what needs to be said has been said, as such I’m actually going to lock the comments here, even though I said I wanted suggestions. I just think the drama needs to end as it stands. If there are further comments they can be directed to the forums.